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	<title>Comments on: Epic Marches On</title>
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		<title>By: Zack</title>
		<link>http://www.hiwiller.com/2009/04/05/epic-marches-on/comment-page-1/#comment-673</link>
		<dc:creator>Zack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 04:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiwiller.com/?p=353#comment-673</guid>
		<description>I think we agree more that you think. Nobody is in favor of half-assed planning and the reason most projects are put into death marches is either designers that think every task should take two hours at the most and producers who play along, management-types who don&#039;t know what they want or producers who think they can get away with putting their charges on death marches because they&#039;ve always gotten away with it in the past.

But the question is: what&#039;s to stop the company from only hiring unmarried twenty-somethings like Epic apparently does? Certainly shaming companies won&#039;t work and as long as it is the status quo to work like slaves, that&#039;s how it will be.

In my last job, when I&#039;d cause a stink over something or another one of my many bosses told me &quot;You work in video games. Just be glad you aren&#039;t *insert shitty job here*. And I knew that - everyone had it in the back of their minds. Working in games is exciting, so you put up with bullshit to do it. And the folks in charge know that and exploit that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we agree more that you think. Nobody is in favor of half-assed planning and the reason most projects are put into death marches is either designers that think every task should take two hours at the most and producers who play along, management-types who don&#8217;t know what they want or producers who think they can get away with putting their charges on death marches because they&#8217;ve always gotten away with it in the past.</p>
<p>But the question is: what&#8217;s to stop the company from only hiring unmarried twenty-somethings like Epic apparently does? Certainly shaming companies won&#8217;t work and as long as it is the status quo to work like slaves, that&#8217;s how it will be.</p>
<p>In my last job, when I&#8217;d cause a stink over something or another one of my many bosses told me &#8220;You work in video games. Just be glad you aren&#8217;t *insert shitty job here*. And I knew that &#8211; everyone had it in the back of their minds. Working in games is exciting, so you put up with bullshit to do it. And the folks in charge know that and exploit that.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg C.</title>
		<link>http://www.hiwiller.com/2009/04/05/epic-marches-on/comment-page-1/#comment-672</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 04:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hiwiller.com/?p=353#comment-672</guid>
		<description>Zack:

I don&#039;t actually think a 40 hour week is &quot;my right,&quot; but I do think it should be the default assumption of management. If there&#039;s a deadline looming, and I&#039;m asked (nicely) to spend more hours to make sure we meet it, I&#039;ll certainly do so, assuming we&#039;re talking about a 6 week crunch, and not a 6-month deathmarch. But I&#039;m damned if I&#039;m going to be told that I&#039;m working &quot;mandatory&quot; weekends and 60 hours are expected of me henceforth. In fact, even the demand is idiotic; a somewhat shame-faced plea to help out in hard times is a lot likelier to get a positive response, and not only from me. You catch more flies with honey, and so forth.

Of course, I&#039;m also senior enough that I take a dyspeptic view of this kind of thing; -I- could have planned your development process well enough to avoid a 6-month deathmarch, and if you can&#039;t, then you&#039;re damn well incompetent, and I don&#039;t see any real reason to agree. Not that I&#039;m holding myself out as a super-producer; I&#039;ve met a lot of people I&#039;d rather have as producer than me. But this kind of thing is a clear indication of poor management, not lazy developers, and ought to be treated as such.

The assumption that developers are going to spend absurd hours has deleterious impacts that you&#039;ve only begun to cover. Among other things, as people acquire expensive habits, like, say, spouses and children, they simply cannot continue to behave like unmarried 20-somethings. Which means that if you continue to adhere to draconian scheduling, you will ultimately lose your more experienced talent. In any other industry, that would be viewed as a negative.

For my part, I -will- cook, get dinner on the table, and clean up. Every day. So I will be leaving at 6 at the latest. And very likely going back online at 8 or 9, and spending another 4 hours working, at crunch times at least. And getting up at 7:30 to get my youngest to school, and not showing up until 9.

An employer who can&#039;t deal with that does not deserve my loyalty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zack:</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t actually think a 40 hour week is &#8220;my right,&#8221; but I do think it should be the default assumption of management. If there&#8217;s a deadline looming, and I&#8217;m asked (nicely) to spend more hours to make sure we meet it, I&#8217;ll certainly do so, assuming we&#8217;re talking about a 6 week crunch, and not a 6-month deathmarch. But I&#8217;m damned if I&#8217;m going to be told that I&#8217;m working &#8220;mandatory&#8221; weekends and 60 hours are expected of me henceforth. In fact, even the demand is idiotic; a somewhat shame-faced plea to help out in hard times is a lot likelier to get a positive response, and not only from me. You catch more flies with honey, and so forth.</p>
<p>Of course, I&#8217;m also senior enough that I take a dyspeptic view of this kind of thing; -I- could have planned your development process well enough to avoid a 6-month deathmarch, and if you can&#8217;t, then you&#8217;re damn well incompetent, and I don&#8217;t see any real reason to agree. Not that I&#8217;m holding myself out as a super-producer; I&#8217;ve met a lot of people I&#8217;d rather have as producer than me. But this kind of thing is a clear indication of poor management, not lazy developers, and ought to be treated as such.</p>
<p>The assumption that developers are going to spend absurd hours has deleterious impacts that you&#8217;ve only begun to cover. Among other things, as people acquire expensive habits, like, say, spouses and children, they simply cannot continue to behave like unmarried 20-somethings. Which means that if you continue to adhere to draconian scheduling, you will ultimately lose your more experienced talent. In any other industry, that would be viewed as a negative.</p>
<p>For my part, I -will- cook, get dinner on the table, and clean up. Every day. So I will be leaving at 6 at the latest. And very likely going back online at 8 or 9, and spending another 4 hours working, at crunch times at least. And getting up at 7:30 to get my youngest to school, and not showing up until 9.</p>
<p>An employer who can&#8217;t deal with that does not deserve my loyalty.</p>
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